Update: 11.28.17
If you’ve made it this far in this review, you might be thinking “Dang, he’s sure written a lot about this boot without skiing it with the final production liner.” And, while you’d be right, I’ve been doing my level best to change that over the last few weeks, logging a bunch of days in the Hawx Ultra XTD 120 with the final production liner. So, while I’ve already broken down the the visual and weight differences between the two liners, here are my performance impressions.
Uphill Performance
The production XTD 120 liner does not walk nearly as well as as the production XTD 130 liner (which is similar to an Intuition Pro Tour). This is not surprising, given the differences in cushioning, weight, and stiffness. The combination of the XTD 130 liner with the XTD 120 shell blew me away on the uphill. It’s no ultralight Dynafit TLT7 or Atomic Backland, but it walks much better than the Salomon MTN Explore, Nordica Strider, La Sportiva Spectre 2.0, and similar boots. With the XTD 130 liner (or with an Intuition Pro Tour) the Hawx Ultra XTD shell (regardless of whether you go for the XTD 120 or 130) walks really, really well.
But though the XTD 120 liner does not walk as well as the XTD 130 liner, this is still a very uphill capable boot. It’s not the night-and-day, impressively better stride I experienced with the lighter liner, but it’s still at least comparable with (and might have a little bit of an edge on) the Salomon MTN Explore and La Sportiva Spectre 2.0. And that’s great in my opinion — not everyone needs a boot that tours like a basketball shoe with tech fittings. Plenty of people will get along just fine with the Ultra XTD 120 with the stock liner, and, for those who don’t, well, aftermarket liners exist for a reason.
Downhill Performance
Good news: though the XTD 120 liner doesn’t walk as well as the less-substantial XTD 130 liner, it skis much better.
The XTD 120 shell & liner combo goes downhill considerably better than the MTN Explore, La Sportiva Spectre 2.0, Roxa R3 130, and just about any other dedicated touring boot I’ve been in. Sure, alpine boots with tech fittings and a walk mode are always going to ski better (looking at you K2 Pinnacle 130, Nordica Strider, and Lange Freetour 130), but this is as close as I’ve found. And the XTD 120 is light, which is something I’ve noticed and appreciated in tight terrain and in the air; it takes a lot less effort to move this boot around.
While “stiffness” might be the simplest way to quantify a boot’s performance, the XTD 120 drives home the reminder that stiffness isn’t the be-all and end-all. I wouldn’t say that the boot got much stiffer when I swapped out the lighter, less substantial XTD 130 liner for the stock XTD 120 liner; instead the boot’s suspension and damping improved and the fit was more secure, which made the shell + liner combination feel more powerful. My ankles and calves were more comfortably contained by the liner, and it transferred power more efficiently as a result. I’ve found (more than a few times) that ultralight boots and liners make my calves ache when I cinch down the buckles. Sure you can get a stiff ultralight shell, but it’s really uncomfortable to transfer power from the thin, cardboard-y liners to the stiff shells. The XTD 120 (with its thick stock liner) mitigates this issue. And the calf pain I experience with the XTD 130 liner was gone. With the XTD 120 liner, the combination feels much more like I’m skiing a well-fitted, inbounds boot.
And no, this still doesn’t mean that the XTD 120 will ski as well as your much heavier, 130-flex alpine boot — not because it’s not stiff enough, but because, as damp and comfortable as this new XTD 120 liner is, it’s still not as cushy and powerful as a good inbounds liner. So I personally wouldn’t choose the Hawx Ultra XTD 120 as my only boot if I was planning on skiing it inbounds more than 50% of the time, but I would say that it’s a whole lot better inbounds than any of the AT alternatives I’ve found that are competitive with the Ultra XTD 120 in terms of weight and ROM.
Hawx Ultra XTD 120 (alpine-touring boot) vs. Hawx Ultra 130 (alpine boot)
Of course, all that leads us to a comparison with the inbounds boot that the Ultra XTD 120 and 130 were based on, the Hawx Ultra platform (see Jonathan Ellsworth’s review of the Hawx Ultra 130).
I’ve been skiing the regular Hawx Ultra 130 inbounds the last few days, and while it’s not drastically stiffer, it does have a more progressive flex, and feels more comfortable and powerful when skiing hard. So no, neither the Hawx Ultra XTD 120 nor XTD 130 are simply the Hawx Ultra with a walk mode. The boots don’t feel interchangeable inbounds; the Ultra 130 (non XTD / no walk mode) takes the cake in anything firm or rough, but the XTD 120 does do a better job of matching its inbounds sibling than many other boots in the category.
As far as fit goes, I’m wearing a 26.5 in both the Hawx Ultra 130 and the Hawx Ultra XTD 120, and I continue to be a huge fan of Atomic’s Memory fit. It does a better job for my misshapen Hobbit feet than anything else I’ve found.
So Which Shell / Liner Combo Should I Buy?
This really is the question of the Hawx Ultra XTD series of boots. It’s rare that a 120-flex boot skis “better” than its 130-flex sibling, but in this case, that’s how Atomic has set up the shell / liner pairing. The 120-flex shell with the 120-flex liner offers better damping, suspension and comfort than the XTD 130 shell and liner. The obvious, ultimate downhill combination would be the 130-flex XTD with the 120 XTD liner — or the XTD 130 shell + the liner of the Ultra 130 — but that’s a hard-to-find combination, unless you feel like buying two pairs of boots.
You could swap in a heavier inbounds liner for the XTD 130’s more touring-oriented liner, but I think it’s going to be hard to do that without really compromising the walkability of the boot, even more than the XTD 120 liner does.
So if you’re looking to get the most bang for your buck versatility-wise from these boots, I’d recommend buying the XTD 120, seeing if it walks well enough for you, and if you want more ROM, picking up a pair of Intuition Pro Tours. They’re not that expensive, and by buying them you effectively give yourself another pair of boots.
Personally I’m planning on skiing the Hawx Ultra XTD 120 with its stock liner most days, but for a few long tours where I’ll be walking for 6 or so hours, I’ll swap back into that lighter, better-walking liner, instead of reaching for a different pair of boots.
Durability
So far I haven’t had any issues with these boots, and I don’t expect to have any. The plastic is not as chewed up as the Salomon MTN Explore was after a similar amount of time, and the buckles seem sturdy and reliable. I continue to really like Atomic’s walk mode; it’s simple, and all the moving parts are easily accessible. If it did happen to jam with snow, it would be easy to fix, and it’s very easy to tell if you’re locked in.
I’ll be skiing this boot a lot this year, and will report back if I run into any problems
Bottom Line
So far, the Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD 120 delivers some of the best up and downhill performance we’ve seen in a light, heat moldable, easy-to-use package. It walks well, it skis well, and it has the potential to be very versatile. It does offer some dilemmas in terms of liner / shell combinations, but we consider those to be a small price to pay for the performance this boot delivers.
And stay tuned for Jonathan Ellsworth’s update on the Hawx Ultra XTD 130.
So when does this baby hit the shelves?
3rd option – buy 130 and use more alpine style liner on inbound days!
I currently own the Hawx Ultra 130 alpine boot and love them! Do you think I could buy the Hawx Ultra XTD 130 and swap liners as your suggesting for the best of both worlds? Do you think that could work?
The short answer is Yes, John, it could definitely work.
There’s no guarantee once you start switching liners and shells that the result will be perfect for *your* particular feet. But I know people who have done exactly what you are asking about, and they’ve gotten great results. So it is most definitely worth a try.
If you go this route, please let us know how it goes!
So glad to see reviews of both the 120 and 130 here! I’m a little more inclined to go with the 120 for the flex characteristics of the shell, and looks like the shell weights between the 120 and 130 are near-negligible.
Sounds like the design is great and solid, but is there anything you see getting changed after the first production year?
I want a very downhill oriented, but light touring boot (and I have very narrow foot), so the 130 Hawx XTD seems perfect. But when I tried them on, the flex didn’t seem very progressive and I found the end of the flex. The liner of the 120 XTD seems to be more up my alley. Any way that you know of to get the 130 Hawx XTD shell but with the 120 Hawx XTD liner?
Also, is the 130 Hawx liner the same as the 120 Hawx XTD liner?
Thanks!
Intuition and others sell aftermarket liners, so you could get one from them in the style you desire. (For example if you have skinny ankles like me, the alpine wrap liners will add a lot of stiffenness and shock absorption).
Hi all…. so I am deciding between Atomic and Roxa. I am a female who does not “charge” or muscle my way but finesse my way through my turns in the back country or in resort. These days I ski 60% in bounds and do 1/2 – 3/4 days in the back country. Will be moving to more back country days this winter. Ideally want ONE boot to do both.
Thank you in advance!
How much stiffer is the 130 with the same liner?
As a big guy 6’3″ 200lbs who skis 80% BC I am leaning towards the 130 and picking up a set of inbounds liners at some point, does that seem like a reasonable approach or could I get away with the 120?
This is a great review. It is quite likely I will purchase your recommended setup. One caveat I read is that the sole is non replaceable. Is this an issue? I tend to wear the soles out long before the boot. Thanks!
@CyWhitling & @JonathanEllsworth – Seriously scratching my head: why on earth would Atomic spec their *second* stiffest 120-flex touring boot w/ a stiffer liner than the 130 version? You guys take that decision in stride, but it makes zero sense to me: if I want a beefier shell, I want a liner substantial enough that I can comfortably drive it. Am I missing something here?
Any thoughts on the 100-flex boot? Do you know if the liner is similar?
Not sure I need/can handle a 120-flex boot (my own Salomon Quest Max 130 are killing me – too stiff)!
How would you compare this boot to the new scarpa mastrale, both in terms of uphill and downhill performance, and in terms of the 130 liner vs production liner. Thanks!
Really enjoyed this review, and at the store I really liked the feel of the 120 liner, but….I have to say I’m puzzled about these boots….I used the XTD 120 with the 120 liner for a light touring day, about 16km or 10 miles on fairly gentle terrain (this was my second time out, first time was a short day on piste and enjoyed their flex/stiffness level on easy and expert icy runs. Flowing this we added some padding to the liner however to help keep it more in place, as the heel pocket didn’t feel solid). On the way up touring, after an hour, I could feel blisters developing. I stopped to protect the areas. In the cold, I found it very, very difficult to take the boots out and put them back on. By the end of the day, I had about 6 blisters and two broken toe nails. One toe is swollen, black and now infected. Ironically, I never felt a ‘hitting’ type pressure in the front! The store wants to try another heat mold, I suppose expand it, but wonder if this boot is really meant to primarily ski in the resort, going down, or if it can be used as a real touring uphill boot…or maybe it’s just not right for my feet, I do have ‘difficult’ wide feet…or maybe I’m doing something else wrong. Any thoughts if after such damage I should even consider another try? Should I replace the liner? (5 days later I still limp, can only wear running shoes, and still can’t feel the top of my now dark red, black and white toe…and no, doc says it’s not a frost bite).
Replying to the old post late – but maybe it will help others. Ultra is Atomic’s range from narrow feet. What you probably want is Prime XTD (unfortunately they dont make wide foot model Magna for touring).
Hello,
How would you compare the downhill performance of this against the Salomon QST Pro 130? I just bought the Blister Winter Guide, and there Salomon has been placed to the Alpine / Touring category, and Atomic to the touring category. I am quite lightweight skier (72kg, 177cm), and doesn’t ski aggressively. I ski around 50/50 inbound and off-piste, but as I am skinning up only 5% of total time, the downhill performance counts more. Atomic is way better in other ways than Salomon, but if it is much worse in downhill, then I will probably have to head for the Salomon.
Hello!
Just curious … what’s your street shoe size? Thanks!
What would you recommend between this and the Lange Free Tour 130, assuming they both fit me?
I probably ski 50/50 resort and touring, but have a couple of bigger multi day touring trips planned.
I’m after a one boot quiver.
Just wondering if you guys have run into any issues using the hawx xtd boot with STH2 16 WTR bindings – I just mounted some skis with them and it doesn’t seem like there is enough toe height adjustment to create the necessary 0.5mm gap between the boot sole and afd pad… but both the boot and binding are labelled “wtr” so they should work. I’ve contacted atomic and haven’t heard anything, but i’m curious if my experience is isolated or if you guys have run into something similar.
Did you ever hear anything about this? I have the same issue with the Marker Jester ID. Not enough toe height for mounting. These are fine for my touring skis but looking for something on my resort skis.
The 2019 XTD has a WTR sole. Only bindings that are WTR compatible – e.g. Salomon Warden that has enough front toe adjustment. Unfortunately, my experience with Marker bindings has been really bad. The Marker Jester ID does not work with WTR. It’s a pretty screwed situation. I had to replace 3 pairs of Marker bindings because of this and Marker was less than helpful or even forthcoming about the situation. The entire WTR / Gripwalk standard thing has been a complete cluster. Don’t quote me on this, but my understanding is that Marker / Dalbello’s GripWalk standard won out and next years boots will mostly be migrating to Gripwalk. e.g. The 2020 Atomic XTD 130 has a GripWalk sole.
I have a couple of pairs of Salomon STH2 13 WTR bindings and have the same issue with the toe not adjusting as high as it should for my Hawx XTD’s. If you put some rearward pressure on the boot, there will be a slight gap, so I decided to just use them. I did have instance where I hit a chunk of ice at high speed and the binding released like it should. So I think its not ideal but workable.
Great review. I recently tried on a bunch of boots, and I really liked the feel of the Atomic Hawx 120. The size 29.5 felt good, much tighter than the generally loose and sloppy boots I am used to, but surprisingly comfortable. Except in two places. Over my prominent bunions (metatarsal bump?) and in front of my big toe. Standing up straight, my toe crunches against the front of the liner. Moderately flexing the boot, my big toe does not touch the front of the boot. Other than that…great fit? My questions:
1) How much can I expect the Atomic memory fit to stretch? By baking the shells and liners, can I expect to gain appreciable width? What about length? Can the memory fit process make the boots longer, if only a little bit?
2) If the memory fit process can not make the boots longer, is there any way to do a punch just for my big toe? I expect a punch on the side of the boot for my bunion would be no problem, but what about right at the front of the boot?
Advice appreciated….
As always, great rewievs. Is about to buy new boots and due to kids I doesnt want several boots, no place and all money goes to the kids snowboard addiction :). Do want a boot for most downhill (inbounds groomers) use but do want to be able to tour with it. Have tried every boot existing and the only one that really fits my feet (an seriously it fits like nothing like I experienced before, so good) is the Atomic hawx Xtd 120. But after reading blisters review and buyers guide where you place the the XTD (even the 120) as a pure touring boot I get really hesitant.
in what sense do you think the alternatives from Lange (,XT freetour) Head (Kore), Technica (cochise) etc would work better then the XTD 120 for downhill use? just standing in a shop its really hard to say anything about flex when atomics truflex makes the boots behave much like it would when its cold and langes or Technicas feels really soft forward flex wise
I also wonder if Atomic have made changes to the 120 version as the stated weight is 200g heavier then the version blister made the review on.
I like the idea with the Intuition Pro Tour Liner. Which volume version (I assume medium or high) should I take if the stock liner from the xtd120 fits me perfect?
late reply, but mayb help others.. check the fitting guide on intuition website. you need to measure your shell fit without a liner and decide based on that. i barely fit a finger behind my heel – so i went for LV (liners on the way :) i read reviews where people went one volume up to have tighter fit only to find out it is too tight.
Just happened to crack the upper boot piece close to the inner ankle pivot
You guys think this is normal after skiing approx 60 days in these boots
I absolutely love the performance of my Hawx XTD 120 boots but find them almost impossible to get my foot into them past the arch unless they are warmed up next to a heater before attempting to put them on. I actually bought a heated boot bag to keep them pliable enough during the drive to the trailhead. Has anyone else noticed this? Any tips?
yup, the same here – the shell bend above the instep is just too tightly bent and overlap is rather short, so if tongue gets out of the overlap, the bend keeps its sharp shape, presses on your instep and it really hurts.
the only thing that works when i forget to keep them in the heated bag is to push my foot as far as it goes, then kneel down on the other knee, put my hands under the outer cuff flaps, open them with the back of my hands and use fingers to pull overlapping shell top parts apart until my foot slips in.