2nd Look: 2016-2017 SCOTT Punisher

Powder

In early December, I took the 189 Punisher and the 185 Mega Dozer to the Stubai Valley Glacier in order to ski them back to back. When we arrived, it snowed 30cm every day for four days, and I got my first deep days of the season.

Johannes_Simon_Stubai_Valley_Daunscharte_II_Photo_Patrick_Ribis
Johannes Simon, Stubai Valley Daunscharte (Photo by Patrick Ribis)

The snow pack was not very stable and avalanche danger was pretty high, so we could only do medium-steep and shorter sidecountry runs (but when the snow is knee deep or deeper, any run is good).

With its wide tips, the Punisher floated very well, and I didn’t notice any big difference in terms of flotation compared to the 9mm-wider-yet-less-rockered Mega Dozer. I never felt that I needed a wider ski than the Punisher in these conditions.

And when we did the longer descent from the “Dresdner Hütte” to the bottom station of the tram a couple of times, which I did on both skis, I never felt that I had to work harder to keep the Punisher afloat than with the Mega Dozer.

Whereas the Mega Dozer has a decent amount of taper in the tip and tail, moderate rocker (comparable to the Fisher Big Stix 110), about a 40cm straight section under foot, and quite a lot of camber, the Punisher has a fat tip and tail similar to the Coreupt Slasher or Nordica Patron and Helldorado; a 50cm straight section underfoot, significantly less camber than the Mega Dozer, and much more tip and tail rocker with a gradual rise and no extra “kink” or “bend” in the tip.

And so while I agree with Garrett Altman’s conclusion that the Punisher is a very capable charger that busts through crud and chop incredibly well, the new shape Scott has introduced also works better for me in soft snow, and I find it to be easier to release the ski’s tail (though it is still not the smeariest, slarvy ski out there).

Trees (and the 183cm Punisher)

All the skiing we did in December on the glaciers was above the treeline, so it wasn’t until January that I could take the Punisher into trees.

I decided to switch skis with a friend who owns the shorter 183 Punisher, which I took to the Ziller Valley during a storm cycle to ski the steep tree runs of the “Eggalm.” It had snowed about 50cm during the two days prior, and the tree skiing was epic.

I was glad I got my hands on the shorter 183 Punisher, mounted -1cm of the line, and never felt that I needed more ski. Especially in tighter spots, I could imagine that, though the 189 Punisher is a nimble ski, there might have been runs or parts thereof where the 189 would have been more ski than I needed.

The 183 Punisher felt quite dialed as a tree ski. It was quick and nimble, yet stable when there was more room to open it up in the upper gladed runs or in the more spacious sidecountry of “Lattenalm.”

At the end of the day when the clouds seemed to open up, we started the boot hike on the ridge line top of the “Beilspitzlift” to get to the “Grüblspitze,” but we had to turn back because the clouds were moving in again.

The next day, when conditions finally allowed for the hike, I did it with the 184 Line Sir Francis Bacon. The 50-minute boot hike takes you to 2,395m, and you have about 1,100m vertical in front of you, about half of which is above the treeline.

In this upper part when gaining speed and doing bigger turns, I would have preferred the Punisher to the more center mounted and softer Bacon. But in the second half of the run, where the trees are in some parts very tight, I felt that the SFB was the slightly better ski to have—but only slightly, which is saying something, given the greater stability of the Punisher.

(FYI, the 183 Punisher = 142-108-130mm, the 184 Sir Francis Bacon = 140-108-136mm.)

183cm Punisher vs. 189cm Punisher

After two days of snowfall and only patches of sun, the first bluebird day of the trip finally came, and I took the 183 Punisher to the “Hintertuxer Glacier” at the end of the Ziller Valley, where I had made my first turns with the 189 Punisher back in November.

There was about 50cm of fresh, slightly wind-affected (more dense) snow, and not a single cloud in the sky. I started with the face right to the Sonnenhang and went down with huge GS turns. I certainly felt that in these conditions, the longer 189 Punisher would have been the better option. It is not that the 183 Punisher was not stable or not floaty, it was just that in these conditions, the longer length (unsurprisingly) offers a little more of both.

Mixed Snow Conditions / Crud / Chop

In March, I went back to the Stubai Valley and Innsbruck area with the 189 and 183 Punishers, as well as the 183 Armada TST. It was sunny and quite warm during the entire trip, and in order to find good snow we had to traverse a little or hike.

After skiing down a couple of turns on the 189 Punisher, we took our skis off and hiked to a line left from the top of the Daunscharte run. After about thirty minutes, there was a beautiful untouched face—about 300 vertical meters—with about 40cm of fresh and mostly consistent albeit it a little sun-baked snow.

The upper part was about 30 degrees and led into a medium-wide couloir with a steepness of 35 to 40 degrees before the terrain got again mellower and open. I went second, after our guide, and I don’t think I could have been on a more perfect ski for the entire run than the 189 Punisher. Whenever there were rare, variable patches in the snow, or where the surface was a bit crusty in the transitions, the Punisher’s tip just cut through it and never did the ski feel chattery or did I get bounced around.

The group met again at the bottom of the new chair to the “Daunjoch,” which had opened just before Christmas and which in the past could be accessed only by skinning and climbing. Here, the snow was much more tracked and choppy, as the line we skied did not require any hiking.

Again, the 189 Punisher did very well and was stable and damp without feeling heavy or planky.

There was one section with icy chunks were I got pushed in the backseat and had to fight a little to get back into a proper stance, but I would say that the skier and not the ski was to blame in this case.

Over the next days, the snow got more and more variable and, again, in order to find untracked snow we had to take our skis off and hike. On the bigger runs, I certainly preferred the longer Punisher.

However, the 183 Punisher was the better pick for me on the “Trögler Rinne,” a run with a longer couloir in the middle, and the lines on  “Mutterbergl,” which offers more playful terrain, including steep and narrow transitions into gladed tree runs in its midsection.

In these conditions, I preferred the additional nimbleness of the shorter Punisher over the increased stability of the 189 length. (Moreover, both runs require hiking, and there was a little less to carry with the 183….)

 

23 comments on “2nd Look: 2016-2017 SCOTT Punisher”

  1. I am looking for a stiff but light powder/all mountain ski to use as my main touring ski next year in Colorado. How does the 183 Punisher compare to the 186 Bibby Pro? Both seem to be hard charging but fairly maneuverable skis, with the Bibby Pros being slightly more substantial. Are there any significant differences between the two? Which would you recommend for a touring setup?

  2. Hi Andrew,

    When talking about the 186 Bibby do you refer to the Governor or the 2014 Bibby, which in my understanding will have a 120mm waist and become more of a pow dedicated ski?If you refer to the current regular 184 Bibby, on which I have spent little time so far and have not done any touring or hiking, I would say that both are good side country skis as regards size and weight. The Bibby is obviously wider (8mm compared to the 183 Punisher, which only has a 108 waist) and about 80 to 100 grams heavier per ski, nevertheless light for its size, and will offer better deep snow performance. The Punisher is a little quicker from edge to edge and may be a little easier in tight terrain. If you do a lot of skinning and hiking the I would tend a little towards the Punisher. As regards the “charging” I would say that both skis have enough backbone.

    Some more thoughts:

    1. New Moment Exit World – I would not be surprised to read about it here soon.

    2. 181 ON3P Wrenegade.

    3. 186 ON3P Vicik Tour Layup.

    4. 181 Surface Live Life / Drifter or Live Free. The Live Life and the Drifter are the same skis with different graphics whereas the Live Free shares the dimensions and shape, yet has a slightly thinner core and is a little lighter although the whole range is really light, yet stiff and they are quite capable “chargers”. You can read Kate Hourihan’s review of the 181 live life on this site:

    http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/2012-2013-surface-live-free

    As for myself I have skied the 181 Surface Drifter a bit this spring and really liked it. It has gradual tail rocker and no twin tip, which I like for sidecountry skiing, is light, stable and easy to throw around. You may find it a little short, but is has a good portion of rocker and at least in spring snow I did not have any tip dive issues…

    Just a few thoughts. Happy skiing!

  3. Jason said:

    October 28, 2013 at 11:42 am

    I am 6’4″ and 240. I ski bumps and tight trees at Vail and Keystone, and also spend time at A basin.
    Would you go Scott Punisher 189, Cochise 185 or 193, or MOMENT Belafonte, 187cm or the new Sir Francis Bacon in 190. I am an expert skier and love to ski Pallavicini at A Basin but at 43 I now ski it with less reckless abandonment that I did in years past.
    Look forward to your thoughts and suggestion.

  4. I have narrowed it down to either getting the 190 Sir Francis Bacon or the 189 Punisher. Your thoughts? I am 6’4″ and 240. I ski bumps and tight trees at Vail and Keystone, and also spend time at A basin.
    I am an expert skier and love to ski Pallavicini at A Basin but at 43 I now ski it with less reckless abandonment that I did in years past. Look forward to your thoughts and suggestion.

  5. Hi Jason! I have not skied the 190 SFB, but my experience from skiing the 183 punisher back to back with the 184 SFB should be transferable to your question.

    1. The SFB has a progressive medium to soft flex while the Punisher is quite a stiff ski. Both carve well on hardpack due to their shape, which gives you quite a long effective edge despite the fact both skis are tip and tail rockered. Yet, the SFB has a speed limit, the Punisher does not…

    2. The SFB is a “swollen park ski” with a snowboard inspired shape. Although the Punisher is marketed as a backcountry freestyle ski I found it to ski more directional. The SFB skis incredibly well switch. It is the only ski that I have ever skied so far where switch skiing felt effortless and natural (i.e. I am not a very good switch skier, but the SFB definitely “lifts” performance).

    3. Although both skis are light – the Punisher even being a little lighter – the SFB has a lower swing weight. The SFB is quicker edge to edge, but the Punisher is still quite a nimble ski. The SFB is better in bumps and trees (in fact, it is probably the best tree ski I have ever skied). The Punisher floats better – wider tip, more splay in the rocker and the mount is less centered than with the SFB – and is better in variable snow conditions. Read Garrett’s review – he as a comp skier calls it one of the best crud and chop skis he has ever skied. It is indeed incredibly confidence inspiring in variable snow without feeling planky and will still do quite well in bumps, trees and narrower spots.

    4. If you are not very much into the freestyle aspect, I would say with your size and weight and the description of your skiing style, the 189 punisher is the better pick. If you are looking at the fun aspect, making snowboard inspired slash turns and pop off features, the SFB would be better. Although it is relatively soft, it is not chattery or unstable – it can still handle a heavy skier, but as said – if playing around on the mountain is not your major aspect, but you still want a nimble ski, go Punisher.

    5. In order to make your choice a little more difficult, one more thought… I skied the 184 moment deathwish this spring and found it easier than the Punisher, but more stable than the SFB. I would have to spend more time on it, but I found the deathwish a very good mix of being sufficiently substantial and still playful. So maybe 190 moment deathwish? Yet, with your size, weight and background I would still tend towards the Punisher for the days where you want to open it up…

    Hope this helps! Happy skiing!

  6. Well boys I ordered some 189 Scott Punishers today! I will give you my two cents on how they perform once I get some time on them. Thank you for your help.

  7. Any thoughts on mounting the 189 -1 back?
    6′ 240

    On groomers I sometimes have to pick up my heel to get a ski to turn without catching the edge.
    Shop recommended this.

  8. Hey Johannes,

    first of all: This is an excellent review! Stands out of all the short summaries on the web.
    The comparison to other skies is always a great help for me.
    I own the older Punisher (90mm waist) – and like them a lot – but i would like to try a wider all-mountain-ski. I love to ski trees and backcountry, but there is not always an opportunity so i have to ski groomers quite often. Because of this a ski for me has to be fun on groomers, too! ;)
    I’ve considered the Armada TST, but your comparison makes me think if it’s the right choice.
    Did you ever ski the old 90mm-waist punisher? I wonder how it compares to the new one. I could not find anything on the net.

    Kind regards
    Martin

  9. 189 Punisher
    Age 40 6’4″ 250 pounds
    Expert skier, Days on skied on Punisher 4, average days skied each year 40 to 50
    Skied Punisher at Keystone and Breckenridge. So far very happy with the ski
    Skied on groomers that were soft to hard packed and the ski did not chatter and I could really rip downhill with confidence. Skied some midsized moguls that were rock hard with 3 inches of fresh on top. Ski performed well and did not have any issues with the wide shovel of the ski. The skis are light and I felt they performed as well in the bumps as you could expect a ski of this size. Epic day at Breckenridge 8 inches of new snow to start the day and dumping hard all day with plenty of wind. Skied Peaks 7 and 8 which means you get everything from very hard windblown snow, light chop to 16 inches of pow because of the wind. Ski performed well and provided plenty of float. I skied some very tight trees at both Keystone and Breck and could make tight turns without a problem. The only thing I have not skied is heavy chop but after being on the ski I think it will handle this without a problem. I think the ski is plenty big for skiing Summit County and Vail as we rarely get more than a foot of snow at a time. I may get a smaller pair skis 90 mm range for when the snow is not great and I have to keep up with my smaller friends and kids in the bumps all day. Over all I really like the ski and they were significantly better than my old skis for the one big snow day at Breckenridge.
    Old skis 2004 Gotomas 184 with 103 underfoot This model was twin tip and no rocker great all mountain ski. Background raced growing up until high school. Ex D1 football player. Side note I skied old skinny skis just fine until a buddy gave me the Gotamas in 2009 and I saw the light of new equipment also I have not skied on any other skies to compare to the punisher. I originally wanted to buy the Sir Francis Bacons but felt after reading reviews and talking to some folks that I was just too heavy for the Bacon.

  10. Follow up.
    Days on skies now 10 +. Skied the epic storm we had in Colorado last week with 29 inches of new heavy powder.
    Skies performed well I did sink a bit but at 250 pounds and 29 inches of snow this is to be expected. Skied well in the tight trees and open bowls. The ski is very stable. Once the powder was cut into crud this ski really shined. The ski has no speed limit in crud or chopped up snow. The ski also performs very well on groomed runs for making GS style turns and has no speed limit on groomers or I did not find it.
    If you are a bigger guy and want a stable ski that can handle a variety of things I think this is a good choice.

  11. Hey Martin, I realize I am a little late at responding to this. Yet nevertheless I hope, my response is still of interest.

    Yes, I have skied the old punisher from scott. The “old” punisher is/was a completely different ski. It was an easy going twin tipped allmountain ski raniging from a mid 80 to 90 waist – depending on the length -, with a medium to medium soft flex and no tip and tail rocker (though the tails and shovels were a bit “extended”, i.e. a couple of cm’s earlier rise than average cambered skis – maybe comparable to the old scott p4’s – and it had some taper in the tips and tails).

    The new punisher is about 2cm wider in the waist, has a Long tip rocker, some tail rocker, a sidecut that goes wide into the shovel and it is quite a stiff ski. What the two skis do have in common is that they are both lighter skis within their category, but I would not call the new punisher a very easy ski, especially not in the 189 length. It is also not a very demanding ski, but it is enough ski for expert skiers (see Garrett’s review) and a very confidence inspiring ski for advanced skiers on which you can ski very fast. It is also still playful, but requires more input that let’s say the Armada TST or Line SFB. If you are seeking for something that has the old punisher’s playfulness in a wider Profile, look at the two aforementioned skis. If you want a more serious ski that still has a playful side, the new punisher might be your ticket. I do not know what size you are, but if you are in my size range and not very heavy or an expert with racing background the 183 punisher is still enough ski, but more playful than the 189. As described above, it is not that the two are completely different skis, it is just that you will notice the difference in particular situations (bumps, trees, tight spots).

    If you have any further questions, let me know.

  12. Johannes, thumbs up for your balanced and comprehensive review.

    One question: do you have an idea with respect to how the 189/183 Punisher would perform vs. 186 Line Sick Day 110?

  13. Vladski, unfortunately I have not skied the line Sick Day 110 so far. Sorry that I cannot be more helpful in this regard.

  14. what do you think about using it as a freeride touring setup with dynafits?
    i am 193cm/90kg.
    too wide or too heavy…(the shovels look wide, too) ??
    basically i am not used to small skis anymore ….

  15. Hey Johannes, Great review.

    Between you and Garrett, You sold me on this ski. I realize that there are literally TONS of skis out there this day and age but I am rather surprised that this ski hasnt gotten more publicity????

    Every single review I read hit on the exact same points. The ski: DESTROYS CRUD and hardpack, is stable at speed yet playful, and is very confidence inspiring. What more can you want from a daily driver? Being a local at the Bird/Alta, I feel this is a great choice. Again….I dont really know why it hasnt gotten more publicity.

    Anyhoo, I wanted to ask about the mounting position of the 183. You say -1? Whats the reasoning behind that, compared to the recommended line? I am 5’8″ 150lbs and went with the 183, I stood next to the 189 but it looked quite large. I like charging as much as the next guy but honestly I wanted something for every day to NOT ONLY be able to charge on but also take her easy occasionally and play a bit. That being said, I didnt really read any thoughts on how “short” this ski skied. Do you have a comment on that? I guess specifically in regards to the 183. I realize that, obviously, you will loose some stability at max speed with the 183 compared to the 189, but is it really that big of a trade off? I have heard from all that this is a, although quite light and maneuverable, a fairly stiff ski.

    Thanks again,

    Patrick

  16. Hi folks,

    I have to decide: Fischer Big Stix 110 (186) or Punisher 189?
    Could you please point out the differences between the two skis?

    The resorts I ski are in the Alps. My background is that I raced when I was young.
    My equipement consists of a K2 Wayback for touring, a K2 Sidshow, a Head Rev 85, and some racing skis. I am looking for a real freeride ski.

    Any hints?

    Thanks,

    Stephan

  17. @Patrick’s comment of 16 October 2014, 9.24 pm

    Hi Patrick,

    I am sorry I am that late in my response and I hope it is not too late for you. As for the mounting position of the 183 with -1 instead of recommended line. As staed in my review the 183 is a ski mate’s pair (he is about my size, but about 30lbs lighter) and he did that hoping for a little more stability and float when going with the shorter length. And as for the 189 / 183 comparison:
    – The ski is quite stiff and the 183 is still a stable ski (at least with the -1 mount I did not have any issues)
    – The difference between the two lengths is noticable, but they are not entirely different skies
    – You weigh about 40 lbs less than I do and your stated hieght is 5’8″ compared to my 5’9″. From what you describe the 183 may fit your bill a little better in most respects, except fro the “charging”.
    – The 183 skies shorter than the 189, but compared to other skis of it’s size and weight (e.g. Armada TST in a 183 or 184 line SFB) it does not ski short.

    Hope this helps!

    Johannes

  18. hi hannes,
    i am planning to buy the scott punisher, but i am not sure about the length – i am 1,85cm(6’1)/72kg (159lbs). from your description the 189 sounds better, but as i am 15kg lighter than you, but taller, i wonder what you would recommend?
    thanks!!
    lothar

  19. Hi Johannes, long time after but I can get hold of a pair of new 2017 Punishers, which after reading yours and Garrett’s reviews I am quite tempted to do. What you would say would be the nearest current equivalent ski? Would something like the Corvus be close? Or is it more akin to the Atris? Enforcer 110? Thanks

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